Thank you, Gay. Welcome to the Grammar Club! This has been on my mind, and I felt compelled to share my viewpoint. I knew Allison would have some valuable feedback to share, and she exceeded my expectations.
*raises hand in humility* Your Honors, I plead guilty to 'Gross Grammatical Misconduct'. I do believe I am guilty of all of these cringe-worthy offenses. Forgive me, I write like I talk. It's clear I need an editor. 😊 Appreciate the honest feedback and dialogue.
An old friend sent me a plaque that says, I'm silently correcting your grammar. I'm a writer with a grandmother who incessantly corrected our grammar. English was her second language. German was her first. She spoke English better than native speakers. I sympathize with Alice and agree with Allison. I think we are in a minority club. Sigh.
A grew up in England and then at the age of 28 emigrated to the USA. Now, after living in Switzerland for 31 years and speaking German as well as English, my mother tongue is sometimes a challenge!
Two of my “pet hates” are awesome and mega because they are usual used to describe things which are neither awesome or mega. I also hate the expression you often hear in the UK “It’s a Big Ask”.
Swiss friends with German as their first language offen ask me to explain certain things about rules and regulations in English when I can’t with any precision. I always struggle with “that” and “which” and I often don’t know anymore when I write it whether I’m using the UK English or US English version.
We seem to have gone crazy in the last 10 years inventing words and phrases! In Shakespeare’s time, language was much freer, especially spelling so maybe that’s okay?
One of the most intriguing things I am confronted with every time I open my chest of drawers to take out my pants(UK), (undershorts or boxes in the USA) and I see the words “Lands’ End on some of my clothing. To me this would mean the ends of several lands not Land’s End in Cornwall which is one ends of the main island of the British Isles.
The real explanation is that it was a typo which stuck because the founder could afford to re-print the first promotional materials he had just ordered.
So now we don’t just have 2 peoples divided by a common language we have a global cultural language which is rapidly mutating and I think it’s impossible to keep up!
I promise that if I ever visit any of your homes, I won’t tell you it’s homely! 😂
Allison, It’s so comforting to have your understanding and support about this pet peeve! It’s nice to know I’m not alone in this nerdy mindset that we would both like to change.
You’re right about letting it go, so I will
have to try to block out the “nails on the blackboard” the next time this happens (which I’m sure will be in the next minute or two). Another word that bugs me is “conversate” but there are too many others to list.
I don’t mind that language evolves and there are new expressions popping up. I just wish the basic foundation was there to begin with.
Well, I’ll get off my soapbox now and turn my attention to more pressing issues...
Have a groovy weekend and just let it all hang out!!
Interesting dialogue. I’ve never thought about the grammar issue before. I get very annoyed by spelling errors. My daughter refuses to date anyone if there are spelling errors in one of her suitor’s texts. Too dumb for her.
This is the best, most forgiving, answer I have ever heard to any question. And I say that as a regular reader of Nick Cave’s Red Hand Files! As a correct grammar bore I am delighted to find that I agree with you on this. You are great xxx
Some of the most intelligent of friends say loose for lose. And I just have to sigh. In certain cases I have been able to gently assist. I guess I want to protect them from others who will criticize them. Great answer Allison.
Great question, great answer, great comments. I received a pin/button from an old friend a few years back that reads the same as Gina-Marie’s plaque. It says more about my friend than it does about me, but always makes me smile when I find it buried underneath stuff on my desk.
I agree completely about the evolution of language. And yet, when people use “impact” as a verb or —God help us—“impactful,” I writhe. “Gifted” and “dialogue” as verbs are also problematic, as is the ubiquitous, wishy-washy word “problematic.” Oh well.
My Boston accent needs to plead the fifth. If it ends in a vowel, you need to add an “R” or drop the “R” from words that actually have an “R”. Boston grammar rule number one, y’all. 🤓
I do love this question, answer and all the comments.
The best thing anyone can do to improve their writing is to use the Grammarly app. I learn something new each day from its corrections and it works pretty much everywhere on the web. I don’t work for them, I just love the app. Lots of folks these days have A.D.D. or other learning issues which made school difficult at best. Until I started writing for myself in my late forties I had no concept of how sentence structure worked or what a noun, verb, or adverb was let alone where to place a comma. It’s still an issue but not as much as it used to be before I started using Grammarly. I especially like it’s tone corrector which tells me if I sound happy or grumpy etc etc. But enough evangelizing from me, I just wanted to throw in my two-bits and say proper grammar can be difficult for a lot of people but if you care how you sound there are fairly simple ways to help overcome it.
I’m also team Grammarly! As a writer, with way too many years since college and the daily study of what goes where, I am grateful for the nudge that the app provides. I actually talk to it sometimes. “Thanks Grammarly” or “no way - I’m sticking with my original here”. ;)
English grammar is dead in the United States. The main reason is most "government" schools do not educate anymore. They indoctrinate. Another reason is many "teachers" do not speak proper English, nor or they qualified to teach it.
Street "poetry," laziness and peer pressure are three more enemies of proper English. And Ebonics doesn't help. An example in the devolution of English in the U.S. might be this example: baby became babe which was still too long, so now it is "bay" or "ba."
Also, any subject that challenges students is being eliminated by teacher's unions, i.e. English, Civics, Math, History, Cursive. However, almost every student from the first grade forward is taught gender studies, sexual positions, alternate pronouns, and how to put a condom on a banana. That doesn't leave time for such a minor concern as proper English, which after all is how civilized societies communicate and cogitate effectively.
When “the boy” was in 4th grade, he came home with a paper he’d written that had gotten an ‘A’. There were misspelled words, bad or no punctuation. So I questioned him on why he would even turn in something like that. He said “It’s good enough. I got an ‘A’ on it.” And in one respect, he was correct - if it scored an ‘A’, it *was* good enough for his teacher.
So conferences were scheduled the next week. I grilled the teacher about it. She said, “At this age we consider it more important that they get their thoughts on paper.” I was livid. In my own case, that might’ve worked in 2nd grade, but by 4th what he’d turned in would’ve been completely unacceptable.
This happened a few decades ago now, and the situation has only gotten worse. Of course, now we have ChatGPT, so kids probably don’t have to write at all.
Thank you for your wonderful comment, Lou. I had a Tulane University professor who let his students "contract" for a grade. Contract means a student tells the professor what grade they want in his course. And he tells them what to do to get the contract grade.
He further said the lowest grade he gives is a C. All a student had to do is show up for every class regardless of test grades and their ability to complete an oral of written sentence. Students who failed to show up would still get no longer than a D. The professor also said he would grade by what he believed a student "thought" and meant, not how they wrote, spoke, or scored on tests. He socially promoted some students.
"Modern" government indoctrination aka "education" produces functional illiterates.
I won’t get into the politics of it, or any of the possible curriculum. My kids are grown. I don’t believe my grandkids are being taught any of that, but I could be wrong. I don’t blame the teachers. When I was a kid, my folks were completely involved with my education. If I acted up in class, I caught it when I got home. If I didn’t do a good job on an assignment, I caught it. Today, there are more parents making excuses for their kids. Teachers can’t discipline them. So it perpetuates. Each graduating class gets dumber than the last. It’s “Idiocracy”, manifested. In the middle 80’s, my wife was working in HR and she told me the high schools here were graduating kids that couldn’t fill out a job application. I’m sure it’s even worse now in the electronics age.
But the problem has existed for a long time. When I got to college, a sociology course was required for a degree. Most take the “101” class. My girlfriend at the time was majoring in it, so I took a 300-level class with her. It was so memorable I can’t even name the class today. This was in 1976, and the prof was involved in politics. So he’d lecture on that. There were no tests or papers to write. The “final” was a single piece of paper that had 2 questions on it: 1) Q. What did you learn in this class? A. “I learned a lot about the Socialist Worker’s Party.” 2) Q. What do you deserve for a grade, and why? A. “I deserve an ‘A’ because I was here most of the time.” And I got up, turned it in, and left, to a stunned lecture hall. I got an A. A guy I met in the class wrote that he deserved a ‘B’. Any guesses what grade he got?
I can’t verify whether there are college “classes” like that today. But I’m sure I would’ve heard about if if one of my kids had taken one.
Thank you, Gay. Welcome to the Grammar Club! This has been on my mind, and I felt compelled to share my viewpoint. I knew Allison would have some valuable feedback to share, and she exceeded my expectations.
*raises hand in humility* Your Honors, I plead guilty to 'Gross Grammatical Misconduct'. I do believe I am guilty of all of these cringe-worthy offenses. Forgive me, I write like I talk. It's clear I need an editor. 😊 Appreciate the honest feedback and dialogue.
An old friend sent me a plaque that says, I'm silently correcting your grammar. I'm a writer with a grandmother who incessantly corrected our grammar. English was her second language. German was her first. She spoke English better than native speakers. I sympathize with Alice and agree with Allison. I think we are in a minority club. Sigh.
A grew up in England and then at the age of 28 emigrated to the USA. Now, after living in Switzerland for 31 years and speaking German as well as English, my mother tongue is sometimes a challenge!
Two of my “pet hates” are awesome and mega because they are usual used to describe things which are neither awesome or mega. I also hate the expression you often hear in the UK “It’s a Big Ask”.
Swiss friends with German as their first language offen ask me to explain certain things about rules and regulations in English when I can’t with any precision. I always struggle with “that” and “which” and I often don’t know anymore when I write it whether I’m using the UK English or US English version.
We seem to have gone crazy in the last 10 years inventing words and phrases! In Shakespeare’s time, language was much freer, especially spelling so maybe that’s okay?
One of the most intriguing things I am confronted with every time I open my chest of drawers to take out my pants(UK), (undershorts or boxes in the USA) and I see the words “Lands’ End on some of my clothing. To me this would mean the ends of several lands not Land’s End in Cornwall which is one ends of the main island of the British Isles.
The real explanation is that it was a typo which stuck because the founder could afford to re-print the first promotional materials he had just ordered.
So now we don’t just have 2 peoples divided by a common language we have a global cultural language which is rapidly mutating and I think it’s impossible to keep up!
I promise that if I ever visit any of your homes, I won’t tell you it’s homely! 😂
Great question. Great answer.
Allison should have a talk show!
Kitchen table series.
Allison, It’s so comforting to have your understanding and support about this pet peeve! It’s nice to know I’m not alone in this nerdy mindset that we would both like to change.
You’re right about letting it go, so I will
have to try to block out the “nails on the blackboard” the next time this happens (which I’m sure will be in the next minute or two). Another word that bugs me is “conversate” but there are too many others to list.
I don’t mind that language evolves and there are new expressions popping up. I just wish the basic foundation was there to begin with.
Well, I’ll get off my soapbox now and turn my attention to more pressing issues...
Have a groovy weekend and just let it all hang out!!
Xo, Alice
I love this!
Interesting dialogue. I’ve never thought about the grammar issue before. I get very annoyed by spelling errors. My daughter refuses to date anyone if there are spelling errors in one of her suitor’s texts. Too dumb for her.
I just think folks can get lazy. Who knows?
This is the best, most forgiving, answer I have ever heard to any question. And I say that as a regular reader of Nick Cave’s Red Hand Files! As a correct grammar bore I am delighted to find that I agree with you on this. You are great xxx
Some of the most intelligent of friends say loose for lose. And I just have to sigh. In certain cases I have been able to gently assist. I guess I want to protect them from others who will criticize them. Great answer Allison.
Oh Lordy! I would annoy you greatly! I have a thick southern drawl and sometimes I may or may might make up a word or 2. Gotta mighty comes to mind.
Great question, great answer, great comments. I received a pin/button from an old friend a few years back that reads the same as Gina-Marie’s plaque. It says more about my friend than it does about me, but always makes me smile when I find it buried underneath stuff on my desk.
I agree completely about the evolution of language. And yet, when people use “impact” as a verb or —God help us—“impactful,” I writhe. “Gifted” and “dialogue” as verbs are also problematic, as is the ubiquitous, wishy-washy word “problematic.” Oh well.
My Boston accent needs to plead the fifth. If it ends in a vowel, you need to add an “R” or drop the “R” from words that actually have an “R”. Boston grammar rule number one, y’all. 🤓
I do love this question, answer and all the comments.
I been a-readin' yer blood
it be a tasty little read
I jes gots to the part
'bout measured time
this past eve
I be a stickler 'bout maths
Though no professor
Do I be
But given the dates provided
It seems you fergot
The leaps!
The best thing anyone can do to improve their writing is to use the Grammarly app. I learn something new each day from its corrections and it works pretty much everywhere on the web. I don’t work for them, I just love the app. Lots of folks these days have A.D.D. or other learning issues which made school difficult at best. Until I started writing for myself in my late forties I had no concept of how sentence structure worked or what a noun, verb, or adverb was let alone where to place a comma. It’s still an issue but not as much as it used to be before I started using Grammarly. I especially like it’s tone corrector which tells me if I sound happy or grumpy etc etc. But enough evangelizing from me, I just wanted to throw in my two-bits and say proper grammar can be difficult for a lot of people but if you care how you sound there are fairly simple ways to help overcome it.
Cheers,
-Rick
I’m also team Grammarly! As a writer, with way too many years since college and the daily study of what goes where, I am grateful for the nudge that the app provides. I actually talk to it sometimes. “Thanks Grammarly” or “no way - I’m sticking with my original here”. ;)
English grammar is dead in the United States. The main reason is most "government" schools do not educate anymore. They indoctrinate. Another reason is many "teachers" do not speak proper English, nor or they qualified to teach it.
Street "poetry," laziness and peer pressure are three more enemies of proper English. And Ebonics doesn't help. An example in the devolution of English in the U.S. might be this example: baby became babe which was still too long, so now it is "bay" or "ba."
Also, any subject that challenges students is being eliminated by teacher's unions, i.e. English, Civics, Math, History, Cursive. However, almost every student from the first grade forward is taught gender studies, sexual positions, alternate pronouns, and how to put a condom on a banana. That doesn't leave time for such a minor concern as proper English, which after all is how civilized societies communicate and cogitate effectively.
When “the boy” was in 4th grade, he came home with a paper he’d written that had gotten an ‘A’. There were misspelled words, bad or no punctuation. So I questioned him on why he would even turn in something like that. He said “It’s good enough. I got an ‘A’ on it.” And in one respect, he was correct - if it scored an ‘A’, it *was* good enough for his teacher.
So conferences were scheduled the next week. I grilled the teacher about it. She said, “At this age we consider it more important that they get their thoughts on paper.” I was livid. In my own case, that might’ve worked in 2nd grade, but by 4th what he’d turned in would’ve been completely unacceptable.
This happened a few decades ago now, and the situation has only gotten worse. Of course, now we have ChatGPT, so kids probably don’t have to write at all.
Thank you for your wonderful comment, Lou. I had a Tulane University professor who let his students "contract" for a grade. Contract means a student tells the professor what grade they want in his course. And he tells them what to do to get the contract grade.
He further said the lowest grade he gives is a C. All a student had to do is show up for every class regardless of test grades and their ability to complete an oral of written sentence. Students who failed to show up would still get no longer than a D. The professor also said he would grade by what he believed a student "thought" and meant, not how they wrote, spoke, or scored on tests. He socially promoted some students.
"Modern" government indoctrination aka "education" produces functional illiterates.
I won’t get into the politics of it, or any of the possible curriculum. My kids are grown. I don’t believe my grandkids are being taught any of that, but I could be wrong. I don’t blame the teachers. When I was a kid, my folks were completely involved with my education. If I acted up in class, I caught it when I got home. If I didn’t do a good job on an assignment, I caught it. Today, there are more parents making excuses for their kids. Teachers can’t discipline them. So it perpetuates. Each graduating class gets dumber than the last. It’s “Idiocracy”, manifested. In the middle 80’s, my wife was working in HR and she told me the high schools here were graduating kids that couldn’t fill out a job application. I’m sure it’s even worse now in the electronics age.
But the problem has existed for a long time. When I got to college, a sociology course was required for a degree. Most take the “101” class. My girlfriend at the time was majoring in it, so I took a 300-level class with her. It was so memorable I can’t even name the class today. This was in 1976, and the prof was involved in politics. So he’d lecture on that. There were no tests or papers to write. The “final” was a single piece of paper that had 2 questions on it: 1) Q. What did you learn in this class? A. “I learned a lot about the Socialist Worker’s Party.” 2) Q. What do you deserve for a grade, and why? A. “I deserve an ‘A’ because I was here most of the time.” And I got up, turned it in, and left, to a stunned lecture hall. I got an A. A guy I met in the class wrote that he deserved a ‘B’. Any guesses what grade he got?
I can’t verify whether there are college “classes” like that today. But I’m sure I would’ve heard about if if one of my kids had taken one.